Songeuse ([info]songeuse) wrote in [info]muslims,
2005-08-11 04:36:00
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What do you guys think of this ?

"Muslims want sermons in English"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4139594.stm

 One of the Muslims quoted in there says that the Qur'an supports having sermons (I'm assuming Friday Jumaa prayer) in the language of the country, but I was always under the impression that it was supposed to be Arabic. I understand that most Muslims don't speak Arabic, but is it not mandated by the Qur'an ? I'm not 100% on that, but I'm thinking if anything, a common language would at least create unity among the Muslim communities? At the same time though, even I as an Arab acknowledge the many difficulties that arise while trying to read and speak Arabic.

 Thoughts/Comments in general about this ?

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  • 23 comments

[info]sadaqah

August 11 2005, 09:13:28 UTC 6 years ago

The Friday sermon doesn't have to be in Arabic...but what does have to be in Arabic are the five obligatory daily prayers. Personally, I wouldn't want the Friday sermon to be in Arabic either because I am not Arab and I do not understand Arabic...unless they have a translator.

[info]xfilesx0

August 11 2005, 12:25:28 UTC 6 years ago

So how does that work then with non-Arabic speakers and the 5 daily prayers? Are the prayers pre-written?

[info]yallabaxna

August 11 2005, 15:38:17 UTC 6 years ago

they're memorized, there's a lot of repetition involved, so it's not hard.

[info]sadaqah

August 11 2005, 20:53:02 UTC 6 years ago

The five daily prayers are basically short chapters or parts of chapters from the Qur'an, so both non-arab and arab speakers memorize as much as they can. As for the other sayings in between the recitation of Qur'an for prayers...we have learned what to say from the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and those are memorized as well. It's always best to learn the meaning of what you are reciting as well, but the prayers are said in Arabic.

[info]xfilesx0

August 11 2005, 22:06:52 UTC 6 years ago

Aha, cool, thanks!

[info]madamerahil

August 11 2005, 13:26:34 UTC 6 years ago

I feel that the Qur'an should always be said in Arabic and then translated, same with the hadith, but the sermons should be said in the country of origin.. Just out of respect for all of the different nationalities present.

[info]shiro_onigiri

August 11 2005, 13:30:04 UTC 6 years ago

I personally feel that the sermons should be in the language of the country as well. My mosque either does it with a little Arabic at the beginning then all English or switches back and forth.

[info]hamra

August 11 2005, 14:41:56 UTC 6 years ago

My masjid does it in all arabic... I really wish they'd say it in arabic, then in english (if they really wanted it in arabic, since there are a lot of arabs at my masjid...) Sometimes I do get nervous, especially with the duas. I never know what I'm saying ameen to.

[info]bleah12345

August 11 2005, 15:02:58 UTC 6 years ago

Jum'ah should be in the language of the country inwhich the masjid is located, wherever that is. Most of the masjids here in the US that I've been to would make the du'as at the beginning and end in Arabic, but would otherwise do the sermon in English. Some even translate the Arabic du'a into English(so they either say it twice once in each language, or say a du'a in both languages). That's the way it should be, as we don't need artifical barriers between people and their religion.

Ofcourse the Qur'an itself is always recited in Arabic, but there's nothing to prevent someone from giving a translation immediately afterwards.

[info]yallabaxna

August 11 2005, 15:37:45 UTC 6 years ago

Most of the people who go to my mesged don't speak arabic, and the guys who do the Jumuah are Paki and American so I have never heard a sermon in Arabic before.
It makes sense to do the prayers in Arabic to preserve the original content, and also it is a beautiful thing for people of all nationalities, races and languages to pray the same thing.

[info]skylark777

August 11 2005, 19:25:45 UTC 6 years ago

the imam at my mosque does it in both arabic and english which is cool.

[info]_amatullah

August 11 2005, 22:01:31 UTC 6 years ago

At my mosque, we have someone who translates and it is broadcasted through these little like radio things that are handed out to english-speakers

[info]four_alarm

August 12 2005, 01:05:57 UTC 6 years ago

the masjid when i was in college did it in both. he would say a few lines in arabic and then translate it in english and go back and forth like that for the sermon. it was kind of nice to hear the arabic because it helps with learning the pronunciation of some arabic words that are common in the prayers.

[info]songeuse

August 12 2005, 01:23:14 UTC 6 years ago

Ah thank you for your comments. I figured most people would be in favor of understanding the sermon rather than maintaining superficiality like someone said.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any specific hadith or qur'anic verse relating to this, like the guy in the article says exists? I would be interested in knowing that at least for reference. Thanks!

[info]pendarth

August 12 2005, 06:57:10 UTC 6 years ago

I couldn't find any reference to the Friday Khutba to be delivered in English (or the local language) ??

snippets:
A majority of British Muslims say clerics should preach in the English language ... advocated more English in mosques ... imam Dr Abduljalil Sajid, chair of the Muslim Council for Religious and Racial Harmony, said .. "The Koran commanded imams to speak in the "language of the nation" and those that did not were "not actually performing their duties" as community leaders"

AFAIK. The Masnoon Khutba of Jumma is a very short (~ 5 - 7 mins) speech. It is sunnah to delilver it in arabic. The sermon - which is 30mins or more is often given by the imams in his local language (Turkish, Bengali, Urdu, Hindi, Arabic, etc.). The masjid comittee - supposedly representing the majorty of the musalli - choose the imam, and defacto the language of the sermon (even often the topics to be covered or not, as the case may be).

IMHO. This is reasonable position. It is true that often the majid comittee is composed of the older generation who are more comfortable with their native language (other than english) thus like sermons delivered in their local language - and have yet to come to grips with the fact that the youth, and the reverts are more comfortable with english. In our mosque they alternate between english and bengali for friday sermons - the khutba being always in arabic. It is good that occaisionally the sermon is in the local language explaining what the arabic masnoon khutba is about.

[info]songeuse

August 12 2005, 07:30:26 UTC 6 years ago

ooh thank you for clearing that up. i don't go to friday prayers as much as I should and i was just using whatever terminology from the article.

[info]webb21

August 12 2005, 11:05:21 UTC 6 years ago

The masjid I go to does the khutba in english. Of course, from what I understand it was founded by former NOIers and not immigrants, so it was English speaking from the beginning (du'as and prayers are in arabic, minus a few english du'as thrown in for good measure).

[info]elyaseen

August 12 2005, 11:42:35 UTC 6 years ago

what is a NOIer?

[info]webb21

August 12 2005, 11:44:49 UTC 6 years ago

NOI: Nation of Islam

[info]na1ma

August 12 2005, 18:44:08 UTC 6 years ago

My masjid does their Khutbas in English as well.

[info]muslimwannabe

August 14 2005, 15:47:40 UTC 6 years ago

instead of posting up personal opinions you all should seriously look into what the scholars have said. obviously islam has been around for over 1400 years and is in more countries than just the ones in the middle east. in fact as you all may know the largest muslim country is indonesia....

as far as i know, only the hanafi madhab allows for teh sermon to be given in a different language. You must all realize that the sermon shouldn't be thought up as something in christian terms where the preacher should accomodate his audience, instead in islam we do everything as it was set by the Propher, Sal Allahu 'alayhi waSalam, so you will notice that the khateeb (the person given the khutbah (sermon)) will do many acts during the sermon that the Prophet, sal ALlahu 'alayhi waSalam, was reported to have done, in cluding standing or leaning against something whilst delivering the sermon (mimbar), sitting down in the middle of the sermon, and saying 'aSalamu 'alaikoom' in the beginning. Now the Prophet, sal Allahu 'alayhi waSalam, obviously gave his sermons all in arabic which is why many muslims maintain that the sermon should be given in arabic ...... however from my experience what happens actually is that the khateeb will first give whats called a bayan (i think thas an urdu word, not sure if its arabic) in whatever language, be it english or urdu or turkish or farsi, and then afterwards give the real khutbah in arabic. you will notice differences between the two, for instance the khateeb will NOT sit in the middle of the bayan and most likely will not user a mimbar (something to stand upon).

as far as the fiqh goes of whether khutbahs (actual khutbahs) are allowed in other languages with respect to the four major schools of thought, i will do further research and present evidence if requested, insha Allah =)

[info]todistraction

August 14 2005, 15:54:28 UTC 6 years ago

the sermon doesn't have to be in arabic.. if it was there would be millions of people who wouldn't get the benefit of it, because there's far more non-arabic speaking muslims than there are arabic speaking muslims. plus new converts or people interested in Islam wouldn't get the benefit. only the prayers have to be in arabic.

[info]pendarth

August 16 2005, 09:01:59 UTC 6 years ago

the khutba is a part of salaat ... thus like the salaat has to be in arabic (even if the person reciting it does not understand it) so does the khutba ...

please see ... The Language of the Friday Khutbah by Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani
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